Talk:Azathanai
Brother/Sister Meaning In the Dancer's Lament Epilogue, K'rul refers to T'riss as "sister T'riss". This has started me thinking perhaps we should have a discussion, if it has not already been had, on whether the use of "brother" and "sister" between Azathanai is an actual relationship or an honorific. To me it is seeming more and more as if it is used not to indicate a blood relationship but a brotherhood/sisterhood between all Azathanai members, unless Draconus, K'rul, SoCN, & T'riss are all related. Marl Karx (talk) 16:25, January 6, 2017 (UTC) :Yeah, Fall of Light has the same thing (with Olar Ethil calling Caladan Brood, brother, to name one). And IIRC, Forge had it too. I think we've used a speculation header in K'rull's article to indicate the same (the term's usage as a honorific). For now though, as we don't really have a definitive answer, I guess we can't really say either. Adding a speculation section as needed (to each of the articles) would do the job, imo. : 17:02, January 6, 2017 (UTC) ::In the interest of saving space, perhaps we should simply link the family parts of Azathanai pages or infoboxes to a speculations section on the Azathanai main page. I think we should at least remove K'rul/Draconus/SoCN from the family sections of Azathanai pages unless we are going to list all of the Azathanai that they refer to as brother/sister, which would take up a lot of space. This would be a good question for Erikson. Marl Karx (talk) 18:08, January 6, 2017 (UTC) :::Yes,if the relationship is not one of kin in the usual sense, then we should just add 'see Azathanai'. The Azathanai page needs a section about the relationships of the various Azathanai to each other in any case. Volunteers? Anyone fancy taking on a dog's dinner, lol? Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 18:38, January 6, 2017 (UTC) A few random observations I guess one main question is whether K'rul, Draconus and SoCN are Azathanai in the same way as the others. Until recently, I have always felt that they were in a league of their own... but that may have been due to having been familiar with them for longer. I just got the impression that there seemed to be a much closer relationship between K'rul, Draconus and SoCN than that which they had with the others on the list of Azathanai. However... Errastas also calls the SoCN a sister. The first time it is capitalized but it would be as it is a single word sentence, so it could be either name or relationship. The second time he calls her sister is in lower case however, which seems to indicate that it is not the sister bit from her name. However, she does not in return call him brother. With regards to Draconus... When Grizzin Farl speaks with Silchas, he concedes that 'He (Draconus) surly knows us well'. That could of course have been said ironically or it would indicate he knows them but is not one of them. Interestingly, Draconus has the title 'Suzerain of Night' amongst the Azathanai. That makes two out of the three having a title with 'night' in it. In the prologue of RotCG he comments in regard to being greeted by that title: And that suzerainty long defied. Rint observes that the Azathanai meet Draconus as equal, and even, on occasion, in deference. The D'ivers Caplo Deem calls Draconus an Azathanai:' Old scents, known to the Old Blood within me. You are an Azathanai.’ Draconus does not deny it. K'rul - Skillen Droe comments: 'K’rul, we have met too many fellow Azathanai. Such encounters leave me despondent' K'rul then refers to 'we Azathanai' but calls Skillen Droe a friend rather than sibling. They are talking about wanting to meet with their 'Azathanai kin.’ So all in all, plenty of references to them being Azathanai but nothing conclusive as to their kinship to each other. An observation on a different aspect: The Azathanai Farander Tarag becomes a D'ivers - seems to me there is a case to be made for this Azathanai to be the future Fanderay and Togg. Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 18:01, January 6, 2017 (UTC) :This also brings up the question of whether T'riss referring to Ardata as sister was a relationship or commonality, come to think of it when she told Ina they were sisters Ina would not have known that they were Azathanai... or perhaps all of the Azathanai are related by blood? I don't know or remember enough about Skillen Droe to recall if it mentions his lineage, perhaps "original" Azathanai, ex. SoCN, K'rul, Draconus, are referred to this way, but the offspring of Azathanai, which if I rember correctly would include Errastas (and maybe Skillen?), are not given this honorific. That might explain why some are given the title and some are not. Marl Karx (talk) 18:13, January 6, 2017 (UTC) ::I just read the section were K'rul talks to Ardata about her 'lover', T'riss...Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 18:31, January 6, 2017 (UTC) :::Is that in FoL? I'm only going on what I've read in Blood and Bone. I'm going to create a section here for this discussion to list the major/important pages and books in which Azathanai speak with or about each other so we can reference these and look for common themes among who are referred to by what names. Marl Karx (talk) 19:44, January 6, 2017 (UTC) Brother/Sister mention locations Dancer's Lament *Page 72 *Page 397